Once in a Lifetime Opportunity

Contents 1 Once in a lifetime offer! 1.1 It all started off when someone posted a job offer 1.2 Ten days later 1.3 One week later

Once in a lifetime offer!

An original thread from the Hivemind Mailing list archives, originally appeared on the list and the old wiki and has been restored to former glory on the new wiki.

It all started off when someone posted a job offer

Simon Edwards:

I am in urgent need of a web designer who is well versed in html, asp, and

Java. The job opportunity is a once in a lifetime offer where there are

limitless opportunities to grow and expand. This job is optimal for guys who

are also eager to study further in the IT industry. The job means that you

will administer one of the biggest and most active web sites in South

Africa. The company offering the position is based in Rosebank in the IS

building and is a small time ISP as well as a media streaming company.

If anyone is interested or knows of anyone who is interested in the position

please contact me directly on spinny@xxxxxxx.co.za

Antoine van Gelder:

> The job opportunity is a once in a lifetime offer

Pardon the cynicism, but isn't that stretching it just a tad ?

Moreover, what are the chances of an intelligent human being being

prepared to work for a company indulging in this kind of hyperbole?

Or is this just a smart-aleck filter which will ensure that no one who

could possibly make a meaningful contribution would want to go and work

there ?

Simon Edwards:

Don't get all critical on me now.

All I am asking for is a Web Designer

Why do you guys always read between the lines and criticize every thing that anyone does.

All I need is some help here not some criticism.

Antoine van Gelder:

*shrug*

Just trying to be helpful :>

Johann Visagie:

> Pardon the cynicism, but isn't that stretching it just a tad?

What?! Egads, no - he wouldn't *possibly*, would he?

Whoo-hoo. A life of Web design in a Windows environment! What could I

possibly be waiting for...? This sort of opportunity knocks but once!

Excuse me while I drop whatever it was I was doing...

Simon Edwards:

If you aren't going to be helpful then just leave the message alone and

stop mocking it! I really cant wait till you make a small typo, but

please take note that I will not mock or critisise your mistakes.

Jon Tullett:

> If you aren't going to be helpful then just leave the message alone

> and stop mocking it! I really cant wait till you make a small typo

You, er, left the apostrophe out of "can't"...

Johann Visagie:

> You, er, left the apostrophe out of "can't"...

I'm sure he was merely compensating for all those people who use

apostrophe's in place's where they are entirely unnecessary.

PS: I am still desperately looking for a copy of Dave Barry's book

Tip's for Writer's, which is apparently a collection of

his Dear Mister Language Person columns.

A recent favourite, touching on another of my pet hates:

Q. Like millions of Americans, I cannot grasp the extremely subtle

difference between the words "your" and "you're."

A. Top grammar scientists are often confused by these two words,

which are technically known as "bivalves," or words that appear

to be identical and have hinged shells. The best way to tell them

apart is to remember that "you're" is a contraction, which is a

type of word used during childbirth, as in: "Hang on, Marlene,

here comes you're baby!" Whereas "your" is, grammatically, a

prosthetic infarction, which means a word that is used to score a

debating point in an Internet chat room, as in: "Your a looser, you

morron!"

Q. What about "yore?

A. That refers to "the days of yore," when there was a lot of yore

lying around, as a result of pigs. Also in those days, men would

augment their personal regions by wearing "codpieces," which were

pieces of actual cod.

Q. Yuck.

A. Yore telling us.

http://www.herald.com/content/archive/living/barry/1999/docs/dec05.htm

Simon Edwards:

I'm glad you find it so funny...

Samantha Perry:

relax, it's Monday, have more coffee...

Simon Edwards:

And by the way it is a once in a lifetime offer because as far as I am

concerned no one else will be hired and thus it is a once in a lifetime

opportunity to join this company. Not once in a lifetime opportunity to

get offered a job or be a web designer.

Johann Visagie:

Thank you for the clarification. I certainly will be reading job ads with

new, enhanced understanding from now on. :-)

Samantha Perry:

I think Simon is going to have a nervous breakdown soon.... LOL ...

sorry Simon...

Ant Brooks:

Simon:

> The job opportunity is a once in a lifetime offer

And later:

> All I need is some help here not some criticism.

An observation: The hivemind seems to react better to honesty than it

does to hyperbole. Because you asked for help, I've decided to assist

you in making your post more honest:

Your version:

I am in urgent need of a web designer who is well versed in html,

asp, and Java. The job opportunity is a once in a lifetime offer...

Suggested rewrite:

I need someone with HTML, ASP and Java skills. The job opportunity

is a once in a lifetime offer in the sense that once we've filled

the position, we won't need anyone else to do the same job.

Your version:

...where there are limitless opportunities to grow and expand.

Suggested rewrite:

There will be limitless opportunities to grow and expand. Obviously

though, we still need you to do your job so your growing and expanding

opportunities are only limitless as long as they don't interfere with

your work.

Your version:

This job is optimal for guys who are also eager to study further in the

IT industry.

Suggested rewrite:

This job is optimal for guys who are also eager to study further in

the IT industry, but more in the sense that we'll give you three jobs

worth of work to do and you'll be forced to learn new skills to

survive, than in the sense that we'll provide actual training.

Your version:

The job means that you will administer one of the biggest and most

active web sites in South Africa.

Suggested rewrite:

The job means that you will administer one of the biggest and most

active web sites in South Africa. Expect to end up doing work over

weekends.

Your version:

The company offering the position is based in Rosebank in the IS

building and is a small time ISP as well as a media streaming

company.

Suggested rewrite:

The company offering the position is based in Rosebank in the IS

building and is a small time ISP as well as a media streaming

company. We're also too paranoid to include our name or the name

of the relevant web site in this advertisement.

Simon, I am sorry to mock you like this, but if you are going to post

lies^H^H^Hexaggerations to the hivemind, expect people notice

(especially the cynical ones :-).

John Anderson:

> There will be limitless opportunities to grow and expand.

> Obviously though, we still need you to do your job so your

> growing and expanding opportunities are only limitless as

> long as they don't interfere with your work."

Ectoplasmic goo found oozing from office windows. Whereabouts of web designer unknown.

"Like a freshly risen loaf of bread" a bystander was heard to say.

Ant Brooks:

If you are serious about attracting someone for this position, why hide

behind meaningless hyperbole? Why not include more *useful* information

in the post, as in this sample text:

If you have some web-skills (HTML, ASP, Java), and if you are prepared

to work pretty hard, then this might be a good chance to expand your

knowledge while getting paid. The pay will be fair, but we can't afford

anyone *really* expensive. We realise that you will probably eventually

leave the company, but if you show enough common sense and drive, we're

awake enough to try to keep you on board. The people here are pretty

good to work with, but some of the contacts on the client side can be

pretty bureaucratic and dull. We will try to minimise the amount of

meetings you have to attend, but there will be some. We have a fairly

flexible approach to working hours, but there will be some customer-

contact, so your hours need to overlap at least partially with standard

office hours. We provide free tea, coffee and snacks, but there is a rule

that the person who takes the last cup has to refill the coffee machine.

We don't limit staff access to the Internet, but if you spend the whole

day posting to mailing lists, expect to stay late to get some actual work

done. We're based in Rosebank, Johannesburg."

I suspect that I'm not the only person who would react better to something

like this than to your original post.

Johann Visagie:

That's lovely, Ant - very honest. Made me think, though. I suspect

that the people who mostly write the copy for placement ads probably

use hyperbole to make the job sound like something *they* would find

ideal. This does not mean that these ads are necessarily going to be

suited to advertising technical positions. I think there's a lucrative,

as-yet unexploited market for lia^H^H^Hcopywriters targeting the

technical work force.

Imagine:

Limitless opportunities to explore whatever new, interesting and

exciting technologies take your fancy. Unlimited budget to buy

computer equipment. High-speed Internet connection to be under your

direct control. Generous budget to attend whatever technical

training courses you may need. Guaranteed no interference from

management in your choice of implementation technology. All

deadlines guaranteed to be realistic and reachable. Competent

and intelligent co-workers who will understand your technological

decisions and work well with you as a team, but will respect your

privacy when you want to go solo on a project. All specifictions

guaranteed to be completed 100% before implementation begins; no

changes whatsoever will be made or indeed tolerated once implementation

has started. Knowledgeable, supportive management who respect your

opinion on technical matters, who understand the technology well enough

to implement a feasible business plan, and who have the ability to

provide you with the infrastructure and resources to do your job

properly. Unlimited access to the coffee machine. Fridge stocked

with Coke at all times."

I suspect most technical people would be willing to work that job

for... oh, 2 - 3K a month. Stuff limitless opportunities. Stuff

once in a lifetime. Stuff stock options - who needs that?

Of course, since technical people tend to be realists they will

probably be even less inclined to believe this sort of ad. In fact,

they pretty much assume the exact opposite of everything stated here,

and demand ten times the salary and a bundle of stock options to

make up for the inconvenience of having to put up with mor^H^H^Hother

people.

Antoine van Gelder:

Throw in a place to sleep and I'll pay _you_!

 :>

Simon Edwards:

The point I am trying to bring across is that I am offering a job, the

posting I put on is exact to the words. Also I don't think anyone has the

right to try and rewrite my posting as they are not the guys who know

details. If a person is interested they want me details and come to me. As

for not mentioning the site and company name, its because I am in a NDA with

them and therefore not allowed to mention it.

Sorry Ant but I find no help in yout mocking and critisisim and editing of

my posting. When I refer to help I mean for you guys to respond and tell me

if you know anyone who is looking for a job. Come on Hivemind you guys can

do better than this. I thought we were a community!!!

Ant Brooks:

Then I don't think you are listening.

> When I refer to help I mean for you guys to respond and tell me

> if you know anyone who is looking for a job. Come on Hivemind you guys

> can do better than this. I thought we were a community!!!

Let's try summarising this thread so far:

Simon: I need someone for a job.

hivemind: You have the wrong approach.

Simon: You aren't helping.

hivemind: You have the wrong approach.

Simon: You aren't helping.

If you haven't picked up any clues to the problem by this stage,

you probably aren't going to. Oh well, *shrug*.

Simon Edwards:

I'm not looking for critical help I'm looking for actual help in finding

someone to fill this position. I think on the other side of the ball you

guys seem to have the wrong approach in the way you help me.

Antoine van Gelder:

Funny that... people who know they need help, they ask for help, they

then refuse to accept the help because it conflicts with their

preconceptions of the form the help should take.

I've worked for people like this before. It can be quite unpleasant and

a tad frustrating.

- You are asked to do a job by your employer.

- Being the person doing the job, you often have information/knowledge

about the job that your employer doesn't have.

- Your employer prevents you from doing the job because he is not

prepared to adapt his requirements to information that you have and he doesn't.

- The work suffers and you get penalised for it.

My sympathies to any sucker conned into working for this poor, deluded,

psychopath who probably still thinks that a social atmosphere of baas

and kaffer is the correct way of life for a community.

Simon Edwards:

Sorry but I think that perhaps you are being a bit prude there...

But hey what did I say before, "I wont mock or critisise you."

I have to say that I gave out the best information that I could but somehow

I don't think you read in my previous postings but I am in a NDA and thus

restricted by law from giving out anymore information than what I have

reviled.

Jon Tullett:

Ant tried summarising, so I'll keep with that approach.

It'll work eventually.

- You tried to post a job ad.

- You did in a way that the hivemind did not take seriously.

- That will not find you an employee.

- The hivemind tried to suggest ways you might post it that would

be more likely to work.

- You took offence, instead of just trying Ant's suggested approach.

Now, you need to find an employee, Ant didn't need to help. Did you

actually want helpful criticism, or are you just expecting us to eventually

cave in under your repeated mindless wailings[1] and say "you're right!

we're all wrong! your job posting was wonderful! take me! take me!"

It's not likely.

Now. Ant pointed out that what was seriously lacking from your original

post was any kind of useful information. You respond:

> Also I don't think anyone has the right to try and rewrite my posting

> as they are not the guys who know details.

But:

1. You didn't provide any details either.

2. He didn't rewrite it.

He suggested you rewrite it, and gave you some ideas to work from.

> If a person is interested they want me details and come to me.

Given your original offer, you're going to get the type of people that

answer "Make $$$$ Fast!!!!!" ads, too. Me, I'd rewrite it. There's a term:

"quality of applicant" that is going to be appropriate here.

Basically, you posted something dumb, got shot down for it, took offence,

received a suggestion to fix it, and went all spiky and hissy instead of

actually taking the advice, all the while bitching that advice was all you

wanted. That's puerile. Get a clue.

[1] I don't need to help either.

Damian Costa:

Weeeee this _IS_ Fun! I want ring side seats. How many rounds is this

fight! It seams a bit unfair though.

One middle weight against all these heavy weights.....

Anton de Wet:

Hey there is only one way to learn realy fast, is to be outclassed badly

by ppl that like to teach :)

Simon Edwards:

I am asking for your help without any questions. It's not that hard to

do, but it seems that Hivemind seems to have a problem with trying to

understand that.

Antoine van Gelder:

> I am asking for your help without any questions.

Aha! There's your fundamental mistake.

You posted to completely the wrong list !

The hive suffers from an unfortunate tendency to ask questions before following orders.

So sorry, you might want to try posting your job offer to

alt.i.want.to.be.a.mindless.cog.in.a.big.machine instead.

Trust me, you wouldn't want to hire anyone from the hive anyway.

We're all smart-aleck wankers here who would rather make you look silly than

help you run a successful business.

Alicia Woolf:

Speak for yourself, Antoine.

love [still!] :>

Antoine van Gelder:

/me *bopples* alicia with the ironystick(tm)

lovelovelovelove

Rocco Strauss:

... not necessarily ... IMO ...I don't think there's many

of us who'd want to buy that "quaint fixer-upper for active

couple that enjoy gardening" : because it's PROBABLY too

small, needs a great deal of hard work - (probably too much to pay

for) so you'd have to be hard working (active/young) to be able to

do the work, and fix up the hell in the garden.

I don't think anyone's going to take on the estate agent who posts

that ad in the same way some have ripped Simon apart? If I wanted

to make sure I was correct in my ASSUMPTIONS, I'd ask for a

viewing ... but then I KNOW I don't like gardening anyway,

so it would not interest me further than the first read of the ad.

... just like there's enough brains on this list to see that the

job offered is not for them, and that it's based on the same type

of generalised explanations offered by many HR ads ...

If you want more info, ask for it ... if not, delete it.

Simon Edwards:

I am grateful that you see this in my light

Jon Tullett:

But Simon's ad wasn't ripped apart. It was pointed out, albeit somewhat

sarcastically, that the phrasing "once in a lifetime" was a hyperbole

unlikely to generate a positive response. It probably would have been left

there - Gary (I think?) who pointed that out is presumably not interested in

the house, and doesn't want a viewing. He was pointing out something funny.

The estate agent took offence, and proceded to dig himself a hole that

everyone gleefully filled in. If he'd shut up, it wouldn't have happened. Ce

la vie. And, one hopes, lesson learned. But I'm not betting on it.

Antoine van Gelder:

It's just that he was advertising a fully staffed ducal palace for a

song and then he went and got all upset when I asked him if the asking

price included those cute little guardsmen with the funny hats and those

really groovy gargoyles on the battlements and whether the gardens

required much maintenance.

Robin Galloway-Lunn:

Oh yes! The folks that go all red in the face when you say

"this is nice but what about the main house?"

Antoine van Gelder:

*shrug*

What's a boy to do ?

Gary Colman:

> Gary (I think?) who pointed that out is presumably not interested

> in the house

No, Rocco introduced the house-buying metaphor.

I've specifically remained silent on this one.

Simon was simply doing what many others have done in advertising

("coke is life" - go chase them and argue your points), and I

feel the hypercriticism against him has been unfounded, and it all

then degenerated into a mud-slinging event.

Personally, I believe if you wanted to embarrass the guy, do so

in pvt email ... flames seldom bring gratification to anyone but

the sender anyway, and often bring to the fore ones true colours.

I've certainly cemented some preconceptions I've been harbouring

about certain folk that live here.

But since I'm on the fence, I won't air my viewpoints here :-D

Damian Costa:

Too late! We're all offended now! :o)

Antoine van Gelder:

> I've certainly cemented some preconceptions I've been harbouring

> about certain folk that live here.

Nothing like a preconception cast in stone I tell you !

Nice'n'heavy like!

Could whack someone upside the earlobe with one of those I tell you !

*miscellaneousmachosoundingnoises*

- antoine.who.should.be.working.instead.of.being.deliberately.obtuse

Damian Costa:

LOL damian.is.doing.the.same.thing.well.not.exactly.but.its.close.

Jon Tullett:

>> Gary (I think?) who pointed that out is presumably not interested

>> in the house,

>

> No, Rocco introduced the house-buying metaphor.

Actually, by "that" I was referring to the very original comment on

"once in a lifetime". As in "Gary, who pointed THAT out, is presumably

not interested in THIS mixed metaphor." You've quoted me a bit out of

context, there, but I admit the mixed metaphor was a tad puzzling :)

Gary Colman:

cf. Antoine

Jon Tullett:

Ah. My mistake. Thanks for clearing that up. I should probably not be so

trigger happy about deleting old mail, but hey. I hate cluttered mail

folders. Sure, not doing it would avoid little confusions like this, but I

like my paranoia.

On the other hand, if anyone here actually knew how maintain attributions in

threads, it wouldn't have happened either. So there. It's your fault, see?!

And you all suck! And you're so unhelpful! You bastards! Why can't you just

conform to what I want in a forum? It's all your faults. You all suck. I try

and try and try to be nice, and you all just tease, and tell me I got

someone's name wrong, and never cut me any slack. You all suck. Gary should

change his name to Antoine. Why do I have to get it right? You suck.

John Anderson:

mee-yow. Saucer o' milk, table 2...

John Anderson:

This isn't about the original posting anymore. It's about someone who

refused to take a hint that he was doing something in a way that many other

people found inappropriate. I'd hazard a guess that most people here have

been at the wrong end of that particular stick, and because of that the

level of nastiness was fairly low.

Although people do find and offer work here, it isn't mainly a placing

agency. The kind of language that would be appropriate in an HR ad isn't

appropriate here because people here, as Sam pointed out, don't like it.

Simon Edwards:

Whatever, but all I seem to be finding here in the "HIVEMIND COMMUNITY"

is the incorrect help I'm sorry if I'm not the "INTELLECTUAL TYPE" of

hiveminder but I find that what generally happens is that the one who

insults anothers intellect is in fact the one who himself is not quite

the intellect.

Antoine van Gelder:

Then please let us not detain you in your quest for a community in which

your, admittedly, formiddable intellect will be appreciated for what it

is.

All the best and please accept my, personal, humblest apologies for the

terribly unfair way in which these utter bastards have treated you !

- antoine.a.bear.of.little.brain

John Anderson:

There's an old saying that starts off "When in Rome..." The community here

values a certain approach. You clearly value a different approach. Now

that's fine an' dandy, but if you want people here to help you, best you

take a little time to understand what's important to them. Having a sense

of humour is a good place to start.

Most of the early posts started off by being gentle and a little humourous,

mostly to give you a chance to back out gracefully. You didn't. Now you've

dug yourself in a deep hole, and worse, belittled the things that are

important to the community here. And you're surprised when people insult

you?

Be grateful that people here are intellectual enough not to flame you out

of existence. There's been a lot more compassion in the replies to your

posts than I've seen in most other online forums.

Jon Tullett:

Oh dear. He's shouting. It's all over.

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame33.html

Anyway. So far, you've received very little in the way in insult. What

you have got, is people trying to be helpful while maintaining a healthy

level of cynicism. If you ask for criticism, and get it, is that an insult?

I don't think so. If you want insults, there are a LOT of people on the

list who are more than capable of issuing a nasty barb or 20. So far,

consider yourself unscathed, and lucky for it.

Samantha Perry:

Most of us here aren't intellectual types either - and no-one is insulting

you for not bein' a 'so-called intellectual'. But you must realise that the

Hive consists largely of people who've grown up surrounded by hype and mass

marketing, advertising etc - and we don't believe anything that smacks of

hype or what I like to call "PR waffle" - all of which serves to make

something sound better than it is - is big on hype and low on fact.

Now the point everyone has been trying to make is - state your requirements

in plain simple English with no adjectives, and lots of facts.. and then -

guess what - we'll all give you a hand to find a person intead of trying to

improve your job specification writing skills.

Simon Edwards:

I don't see why I need to do such a thing. I'm sorry but I would like to

think that you guys would help me and that I do not need to rewrite the ad.

As far as I can see you all have rewritten the ad for me and thus I need not

do any more. You all seem to know what I am pretty much looking for and if

changing the ad makes you feel better then so be it. Choose whichever ad you

like and could you please help me out! Also I would appreciate it if the

Hive would please stop indirectly insulting me.

Antoine van Gelder:

> Also I would appreciate it if the

> Hive would please stop indirectly insulting me.

You'd prefer direct insults !?!

I'll try and do my best but it's not really my forte...

Doryphore!	Slubberdegullion!	Patagonian!	Troglodyte!
Jelly-fish!	Turncoat!	Bashi-bazouk!	Sycophant!
Kleptomaniac!	Egoist!	Tramp!	Monopolizer!
Pockmark!	Belemnite!	Crook!	Miserable earthworm!
Coconut!	Vagabond!	Sea-gherkin!	Road-hog!
Harlequin!	Heretic!	Slave-trader!	Blackamoor!
Vivisectionist!	Black marketeer!	Ophicleides!	Dynamiter!
Corsair!	Moujik!	Rhizopod!	Bootlegger!
Goggler!	Villain!	Bagpiper!	Pyrographer!
Pachyrhizus!	Toad!	Bougainvillea!	Cyclone!
Gallows-fodder!	Politician!	Baboon!	Fuzzy-wuzzy!
Fancy-dress Fatima!	Mountebank!	Rat!	Logarithm!
Cro-Magnon!	Freshwater swab!	Beast!	Bully!
Anthropophagus!

Does that help ? O:-)

Johann Visagie:

> You'd prefer _direct_ insults !?!

http://kitenet.net/insults/

Gary Colman:

You slipped up, Antoine.

Fuzzy-wuzzy is *NOT* an insult. :-P

John Anderson:

It is if you're talking to an intellectual.

"Eah, I say, your thinking is woolly and your logic is Fuzzy-wuzzy."

Gary Colman:

that's an adjective describing the logic...

Fuzzy-Wuzzy is an adjective or adverb of note! :-D

(No, I have no idea why I'm pressing this point ...

been up since 05h20, so I can leave work early and go

relax by the lake this afternoon, and enjoy the 33degree

heat and sunshine).

Ivo Vegter:

Geez...I'm at posts of an hour and a half ago, and I still have a few dozen

to go. General approach to avoid threads like these:

Original poster:

Relax. Don't take things so seriously. If you don't like someone's criticism,

just ignore it. Perhaps one venomous barb aimed at someone who really took

the piss out of you (for the amusement of the rest of the list and the

restoration of your ego), but then let it rest.

Rest of the mob:

Chill. If you don't like someone's post, mention it, by all means. But

generating the amount of noise that's been on this list in the last two days

isn't particularly useful.

John Anderson:

Personally, I quite like threads like these. It's really interesting to see

how people react and what people say. You just have to look it from an

anthropological/psychological point of view.

I'm very aware that this is a bunch of individuals with feelings that can

be hurt. It's not a lab, it's not a test. But it is a real live community

in action.

Janet Kelso:

I loved Jon's description "spiky and hissy" and _made_ this whole thread

worthwhile.

Johann Visagie:

Personally, I have to agree with Antoine that Simon's explicit redefinition

of "once in a lifetime opportunity" made my day yesterday. I really

*will* read job ads with new-found understanding from now on!

BTW, Simon, none of this was aimed against you personally. It's just a

bunch of cynical old bastards finding some wry amusement in the way people

write these ads. In this industry you may as well retire if you can't

laugh at the irony and idiocy surrounding you.

Ask Ant's hero Scott Adams - he made a career out of it.  :-)

werner (quiet):

does anyone still have the original post that started this thread?

I'd like to read the ad again as I have forgotten what it said

(and how it said it)

Simon Edwards:

I am in urgent need of a web designer who is well versed in html, asp, and

Java. The job opportunity is a once in a lifetime offer where there are

limitless opportunities to grow and expand. This job is optimal for guys who

are also eager to study further in the IT industry. The job means that you

will administer one of the biggest and most active web sites in South

Africa. The company offering the position is based in Rosebank in the IS

building and is a small time ISP as well as a media streaming company.

Antoine van Gelder:

Nope, sorry, don't know anyone.

Ten days later

Ansie Vicente:

Thanks to all who got potential "slaves" to contact me. We've found

someone who's between jobs and will be perfect for the job.

Ant Brooks:

<smug aside to Simon>

See, Ansie posted an *honest* job request, and the hivemind helped :-).

</smug aside to Simon>

Simon Edwards:

Your worse than a women (no offence meant to those of the reffered to gender)

you remember the past and as soon as anything related pops up you use it against me!!!!

TUTTUTTUTTUTTUTTUT.....

Oh well whats done is done so live with it like I am currently doing but don't use it to abuse!!!

Janet Kelso:

I refer you to the archives for Johann's treatise on "your" and "you're"

One week later

Majordomo@hivemind.net:
---
Simon <simon@xxxxxxx.co.za> has unsubscribed from hivemind.
No action is required on your part.

---

Compiled by Ant Brooks (2000-09-20)

Recovered and added to wiki by Bretton Vine (2005-11-04)